Talk:Cider Pub Guide

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Bristol to Bath pub crawl

Not sure if this was all a spoof but I kind of enjoyed it, although not twice. I see somebody has deleted the entire entry. I wonder any of it may worth hanging onto? --Andy 18:48, 27 Mar 2005 (BST)

Twas me who deleted this, I didn't think an entry featuring Blackthorn, Taunton Natch, kebabs and a general reinforcing of the cider piss-head stereotype was a useful addition to the site. Having said that I agree there may be some useful information to extract, I'll aim to discuss before deleting anything in future. Mark

Pub Count moved

Pub count moved to Pub Count

I just counted 99 pubs altogether in the Cider Pub Guide Now I wonder which will be the 100th.--Andy 12:09, 3 Mar 2005 (GMT)

Lots added since then. Is there a way to know the total? Andy

Another rough count today - 166 ! (may include some shops) --Andy 14:56, 12 Mar 2005 (GMT)


around 190 as at April 2nd. --Andy 23:53, 2 Apr 2005 (BST)


subheadings

I tried changing the subheadings in the Leicester section, because the table of Contents will get too long if there is a subsection at town level, but then the Leicester section itself looked a mess so I didn't save it.

What's the best form of subheading for splitting up towns or regions within a County? Or maybe we should put up with the growing Table of Contents until such time as we need a seperate page for each county. Or perhaps Leicester can be moved on its own already?Andy Roberts


separate pages

I would suggest that each county will need it's own page at some point, I'll likely be adding a bit of Herefordshire info soon so why not do it now. [User:..]

I agree, you'll have to split up at some point, so you may as well start using subheadings now (although you might have to change the heading level later). You can always hide the TOC anyway... 62.253.64.14

Ok, so when a county has a fair amount of information including sub-headings, it moves onto its own page then. Let's see how that works, starting with Leicester. The beauty being if we don't like it, it can always be moved back or another system tried. --Andy Roberts 11:58, 17 Feb 2005 (GMT)

Is now the time to start moving off the counties sections to their own pages? Frankie Roberto 18:02, 5 Mar 2005 (GMT)

I think the one big page is still more useful at this stage, unless there are people with local knowledge who prefer to have their county on its own page. It wouldn't be helpful to do it just for the sake of tidying when it actually makes more clicks to see everything. Herefordshire has 11 towns in it now. --Andy 18:16, 5 Mar 2005 (GMT)

Sounds good, but what should the titles of the area pages be? Cider Pub Guide to Location sounds a bit odd. I'd prefer Location Cider Pub Guide, or similar... Frankie Roberto

I've split Wales into four regions (as threatened). Beds Bucks & Herts, and Hereford & Worcester, are probably ripe for splitting into their consituent elements too. --Richard Fairhurst 12:48, 4 November 2005 (GMT)

I think it might be a bit soon for that. Almost empty pages can put people off and give a false impression to first time visitors. Linda H

I think the Wales page has benefited from Richard's tidying, but Bedfordshire surely needs more entries before it warrants a page to itself, and Hereford & Worcester are closely associated. I'm going to see if a request on the list for attention to "cider deserts" helps to fill in the gaps at all. --Andy 18:14, 4 November 2005 (GMT)

You'll probably get a lot of replies about dessert apples. :)

I wouldn't be scared of having a near-empty page when there genuinely isn't much in that county. Having a consistent rule of 'one county per page' aids usability, and I doubt anyone would really be surprised to find there isn't much in Bedfordshire. --Richard Fairhurst 10:35, 5 November 2005 (GMT)

At present, if you looked up Bedforshire you'd see not much there, but you might also notice on the same page that there is quite a bit in neighbouring Bucks and Herts without having to click in and out of lots of short pages just in case. So having an uneven structure can in fact aid usability in this case, since it reflects an uneven reality. One thing that might help, could be to also provide a guide to regions on the index page rather than just list the counties alphabetically. --Andy 12:53, 5 November 2005 (GMT)

That's not a bad idea - or best of all, how about a clickable image map? And I suppose the ultimate answer to the three/four-outlet counties is just to find more pubs! --Richard Fairhurst 17:40, 5 November 2005 (GMT)

Clickable map Yes. Some clever integration with Google maps might be the ultimate way to go eventually--Andy 18:21, 5 November 2005 (GMT)

Here's a clickable map. The only way I can see to get this working on Mediawiki is to use EasyTimeline, which requires admin intervention, but you may know better...! Links will require some attention before it works. --Richard Fairhurst 18:19, 13 November 2005 (GMT)

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Regions

Which are the main regions which people visit in the UK who might not necessarily be familiar with all the counties?

  • Westcountry - Hereford, Worcester, Gloucester, Bristol, Somerset, Dorset, Wiltshire
  • Southwest - Devon and Cornwall
  • East Anglia - Norfolk, Suffolk, Cambridgeshire, Essex
  • East Midlands - Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Leicestershire, Northamptonshire, Huntingdonshire, Lincolnshire, Rutland.
  • West Midlands - Staffordshire, Shropshire, Warwickshire, Hereford & Worcester
  • North England - Yorkshire, Lancs and Mancs, Cumbria, Durham
  • Southeast - Surrey, Sussex, Beds, Bucks, Herts,
  • London - North, East, South, West and Central
  • Wales - North, Mid, South, West
  • Scotland - Glasgow, Edinburgh, Highlands and Islands


Not yet allocated:

Oxfordshire, Berkshire and Hampshire - South east or SouthWest hmm?



I think Herefordshire and Worcestershire are often referred to as being in the (West) Midlands!


hiving off counties - June 2005

Does anybody find that the main cider pub guide page is getting a bit too long, perhaps on a dial-up connection?

If so, there's a few likely candidates for hiving off counties onto their own linked pages now.

We've already got Leicestershire on a page of its own ( with Rutland :-) and a page for Hereford and Worcestershire.

My suggestions from looking at the current state of the guide might be:

1) A single new page for the three sections currently under Bucks, Beds and Herts

2) A seperate page for Gloucestershire and Bristol

3) A seperate page for Somerset

4) A seperate page for London

That would reduce the Table of Contents quite a bit as well as cutting the page size,

Or is it OK to carry on with the one long page for a bit longer?

I reorganised it so that it has seperate pages for each county now, with links from the index, and a nav on each individual county. --Frankie Roberto 13:13, 6 Jul 2005 (BST)

accuracy

Would it be in the interests of landlords to mislead people in a place where readers can also leave comments? I suppose some might, but I reckon the consumers will have the biggest influence here. --Andy 15:37, 7 Mar 2005 (GMT)


supermarkets?

I note a few entries in the Pub Guide for supermarkets have appeared. Can we define what we would like to see in the Pub Guide? I am happy to see specialist Off-licences and deli's which sell an interesting range of bottled ciders, but I don't find the listing of supermarkets any great use, even fairly small Sainsbury/Waitrose/Tesco stores have Westons/Thatchers/Sheppys/Aspall, if we start listing them all it's going to be a very long, and frankly rather dull listing. Maybe I'm wrong, is this kind of information useful? Mark

I agree. Specialist shops should be listed in Shops anyhow - only pubs/bars should be listed in Cider Pub Guide. Frankie Roberto
Well it might be useful for someone visiting a particular area to be informed that there's an interesting deli/offie there as well as a couple of pubs, but I agree we wouldn't really want every Tesco and Sainsbury listed. I tend to assume that if somebody has added particular ones there must have been a reason why they wanted to. --User:Andy Roberts 18:54, 7 Mar 2005 (GMT)


Bottled Cider

It is my assumption that pubs that only stock bottled cider should also be listed in the guide. I personally would rather travel a few miles to pay £3 for a decent bottle than drink a pint of Strongbow in my local. Does anyone agree? Matt Tilley


Yes, I would agree that pubs which only stock decent bottled cider should definitely be included. See also the Best of the Bottles page --Andy 20:08, 12 Apr 2005 (BST)


Stowford Press/Thatchers Gold?

Matt writes: "I personally would rather travel a few miles to pay £3 for a decent bottle than drink a pint of Strongbow in my local."

Agreed!

In the same vein, should we also include pubs that sell 'middle ground' ciders? I'm thinking particularly of Westons' Stowford Press and Thatchers' Gold. Although they might not qualify as real cider by everyone's definition (e.g. CAMRA's), they're always a welcome sight when visiting a new pub for the first time, when you might otherwise have expected Strongbow, Blackthorn or worse.

(Of course, each entry would continue to state what cider is on offer, so those who do not like such drinks wouldn't be misled.)

-- Richard Fairhurst


I've just been discussing this indoors and it was suggested that if it's a nice pub and in an area where there aren't any better alternatives nearby then readers would probably be glad of the information, but if it's just being added for the sake of 'completion' then perhaps don't bother. In other words, (and I realise this can take a little getting used to) use your own discretion. I'd put Addlestones in the same or lower ground myself, I appreciated it in the past though. --Andy 16:16, 12 Jun 2005 (BST)


Maps

Would it be a nice idea to have maps on the regional pages? A bit like this? It might help people know roughly where they're looking at... --Frankie Roberto 13:19, 11 Jul 2005 (BST)


It could be a good idea to have maps on the regional pages, but rather than a map of England showing where Suffolk is I think it would be better to have a map of Suffolk showing where the towns are.--Andy 10:13, 13 Jul 2005 (BST)

: I agree. --Frankie Roberto 11:01, 14 Jul 2005 (BST)

Elsewhere on the web

Should we have a page listing other resources on the web which might help finding real cider? Users can consult them, find some pubs not listed here, go off and try them, then report back on this wiki. Two really useful examples: local CAMRA sites; beerintheevening.com (try doing an 'anything' search for Westons, Old Rosie, Thatchers, scrumpy, "real cider", "good cider", etc. etc.). -- Richard

Hi Richard, I liked your approach with Dudley, and there are external links throughout such as to the London Open Guide but I'm not convinced of the need for a seperate page just for external links. If you want to you can create it though, and see how it fares. I find Beerinthe evening good for looking up addresses. --Andy 22:49, 10 Oct 2005 (BST)

BITE is a really impressive site - one of the best community-driven content sites I've seen. Ok - what I might do (given a spare minute, which is always unlikely) is run a few of the above searches and, if it seems relevant, add little summary postscripts to some of the Wiki pages for counties near here. Probably neater than having a separate page.

Incidentally, this site's looking excellent at the moment - will be intrigued to count up how many pubs the new CAMRA cider guide manages to get! -- Richard


Here's another useful search string, put all of site:http://www.pubutopia.com real cider into google and get 41 results --Andy 19:48, 16 Oct 2005 (BST)

Brothers

Any thoughts as to whether it's worth including pubs that just sell bottled Brothers? Found a new one in Oxford the other day. --Richard

I haven't tasted Brothers yet, but I'm going to try some Green Goblin soon and if I like it I'll add the Hobgoblin pub, New Cross. I wish we could know the juice content of these. --Andy 18:31, 1 March 2007 (GMT)

Lancs & Somerset edits / additions

Hi - you may have noticed a number of additions / edits by me to Lancashire & Somerset. Hope no-one objects, epecially to the Google Maps links- JonS

Thanks for the additions JonS. I feel the google maps links are useful and I hope there'll be a more efficient way to include them one day. Meanwhile, do carry on including anything that adds value to the pages. --Andy 15:30, 11 September 2007 (BST)

I tried embedding the HTML for the maps rather than inserting them as links, but that doesn't seem to work. Thats why there are a few strange changes and immediate reversions - JonS